Post by Stefan [GM] on Aug 1, 2011 12:49:25 GMT -7
I've been thinking about how to improve on some base-rules of SR for a while now, and one thing I noticed during our games is Initiatives - and how flawed it is.
Okay, maybe it works, but I would like to try and revert back to the 3rd Edition (with a little house-rule teak on top of it), which would allow for a more dramatic and strategic combat flow. Right now, in SR4, often times a lot of characters act at the same score (how many times did we end up with 3 people acting at 12?). The old system wouldn't do that as much as the new one does.
So, let's start with the basics of SR3 Combat Turns.
1) The special attribute "Reaction" was the average of Quickness and Intelligence. This was your base initiative. Wired Reflexes, Spells, Powers, would directly add to this attribute, as it does in SR4, as well.
2) Initiative Dice. Every Character gets 1 Die to roll and add the result directly to their reaction to determine their total initiative (minus wound mod). Upgrades would increase the number of dice rolles (ie Wired Reflexes 2 would add 2 dice) - add all dice results together and add it to your reaction. This is instead of initiative passes.
3)After the character's turn, subtract 10 from their initiatve, and move on to the next player. Repeat until every is at 0 or less. (This rule is tweaked, see below).
As you can see, rolling 1-4 D6, and adding the results together, will end up in a larger variety of initiative scores.
In Short: Instead of Initiative Passes, you would get extra dice to roll for your initiative.
However, there is still one major problem, which really grinds my gears. Everybody can act in the first turn. AFTER the first turn, everybody with more Passes/Higher scores can act again, and so on. That means that fast, wired, extremely skilled fighters use their reflexes and reaction to be faster AFTER everyone acted. Pretty stupid if you ask me. If someone is wired to superhuman reflexes, he should be able to acte BEFORE others can react.
To simulate that, we tweaked the combat sequence a little bit.
1) After everyone rolls initiative, the one with the highest score starts. He can use his two simple actions, or one complex action as normal. A simple action costs 5 points of his total score, a complex 10.
2) After his action, subtract either 5 or 10 points of his score and look at the list of all scores right away. If the new score of the character is still higher than the score of others, he can act before the slower poeople, again.
You'll get 1 free action everytime you get a turn.
Example: 42 has a small run-in with a local punk, that tries to rob 42 with his light pistol and bad breath. They roll initiative. 42 has wired reflex rank 2, so he will get +2 to his reaction and +2 D6 to his initiative, which comes to a total of 14 + 3D6. He rolls 4, 2, 6, or a total of 12, which gets added to his 14. So his total score is 26.
The punk has no upgrades, so he only rolls 1D6 to his initiative attribute of 6. He rolls a lucky 6, however, so his score adds up to 12.
42 starts his turn by trying to disarm the punk - hey no need to kill (or get shot by accident). He resolves his melee attack as normal, and wins over the punk. 42 doesn't do any damage, but the punk is now weaponless. This was a complex action, so 42 subtracts 10 points of his score, bringing him down to 16 - still higher than the punk's 12. 42 will be able to act again, thanks to his increased reflexes, and decides to teach the punk a lesson by knocking him on his ass.
After his attack, 42 will be at a score of 6, which means the punk is now higher with 12 and can finally act - assuming he's still standing.
Another example, to show you a full combat turn. Assume every character uses their full 10 points.
Initiative Scores are:
Bloody shoots Goon 3, causes -2 mod.
Munchkin shoots Goon 2, causes -2 mod.
Goon 1 shoots Bloody, causes -1 mod.
Bloody kills Goon 3.
Goon 2 Shoots twice at Munchkin, no damage done.
Munchkin finishes off Goon 1 and 2 with full auto burst.
As you can see, if you follow the turns per character, Goon 3 never had a chance to act before he died, and Goon 1 was able to act, but Munchkin and Bloody got more hits in since theyr are way faster throughout the fight.
Since this style of combat is more dynamic, it also makes for more dramatic and strategic combat. It would make sense to hit multiple targets instead of focusing fire, to reduce their Initiatives enough to let your teammates act before them, thus bringing more firepower in before the bad guys (relative term) can act. For example, Bloody acts first, than a goon with a score of 12 and than Asp with 11. The goon has a gun pointed at Asp, and he can act before at this point. Not a good place to be in for Asp. If Bloody can shoot the goon down to at least 10 (which would be 6 full boxes of damage after all), Asp can act before the Goon, allowing her to escape, or fight back before she gets attacked.
Another bonus from this system is, that people like Asp (since I used her already for example), with only ONE initiatve pass, would now have a chance to act twice in combat, as well. I believe Asp's Initiatve is 9, and she gets one die (instead of pass). So her very minimun initaitive (assuming she won't get hit) is 9+1, or 10. Her max is 15. So of she rolls at least a 2, she can act twice - at 11 and at 1 (again, if she doesn't get hit).
I know, it's a lot of input, but I will explain it all in person with a combat example for all to play out, if you guys would like to give it a try.
There's also a few bugs to be fixed - like surprise, and some interrupt actions, like finishing move and so on. But I'll work on this and I'm sure most things can be done on a case-by-case kind of method.
Comments?
Okay, maybe it works, but I would like to try and revert back to the 3rd Edition (with a little house-rule teak on top of it), which would allow for a more dramatic and strategic combat flow. Right now, in SR4, often times a lot of characters act at the same score (how many times did we end up with 3 people acting at 12?). The old system wouldn't do that as much as the new one does.
So, let's start with the basics of SR3 Combat Turns.
1) The special attribute "Reaction" was the average of Quickness and Intelligence. This was your base initiative. Wired Reflexes, Spells, Powers, would directly add to this attribute, as it does in SR4, as well.
2) Initiative Dice. Every Character gets 1 Die to roll and add the result directly to their reaction to determine their total initiative (minus wound mod). Upgrades would increase the number of dice rolles (ie Wired Reflexes 2 would add 2 dice) - add all dice results together and add it to your reaction. This is instead of initiative passes.
3)After the character's turn, subtract 10 from their initiatve, and move on to the next player. Repeat until every is at 0 or less. (This rule is tweaked, see below).
As you can see, rolling 1-4 D6, and adding the results together, will end up in a larger variety of initiative scores.
In Short: Instead of Initiative Passes, you would get extra dice to roll for your initiative.
However, there is still one major problem, which really grinds my gears. Everybody can act in the first turn. AFTER the first turn, everybody with more Passes/Higher scores can act again, and so on. That means that fast, wired, extremely skilled fighters use their reflexes and reaction to be faster AFTER everyone acted. Pretty stupid if you ask me. If someone is wired to superhuman reflexes, he should be able to acte BEFORE others can react.
To simulate that, we tweaked the combat sequence a little bit.
1) After everyone rolls initiative, the one with the highest score starts. He can use his two simple actions, or one complex action as normal. A simple action costs 5 points of his total score, a complex 10.
2) After his action, subtract either 5 or 10 points of his score and look at the list of all scores right away. If the new score of the character is still higher than the score of others, he can act before the slower poeople, again.
You'll get 1 free action everytime you get a turn.
Example: 42 has a small run-in with a local punk, that tries to rob 42 with his light pistol and bad breath. They roll initiative. 42 has wired reflex rank 2, so he will get +2 to his reaction and +2 D6 to his initiative, which comes to a total of 14 + 3D6. He rolls 4, 2, 6, or a total of 12, which gets added to his 14. So his total score is 26.
The punk has no upgrades, so he only rolls 1D6 to his initiative attribute of 6. He rolls a lucky 6, however, so his score adds up to 12.
42 starts his turn by trying to disarm the punk - hey no need to kill (or get shot by accident). He resolves his melee attack as normal, and wins over the punk. 42 doesn't do any damage, but the punk is now weaponless. This was a complex action, so 42 subtracts 10 points of his score, bringing him down to 16 - still higher than the punk's 12. 42 will be able to act again, thanks to his increased reflexes, and decides to teach the punk a lesson by knocking him on his ass.
After his attack, 42 will be at a score of 6, which means the punk is now higher with 12 and can finally act - assuming he's still standing.
Another example, to show you a full combat turn. Assume every character uses their full 10 points.
Initiative Scores are:
Character | Score | Wound Mod |
Bloody | 28 | n/a |
Munchkin | 23 | n/a |
Goon 1 | 19 | n/a |
Goon 2 | 16 | n/a |
Goon 3 | 12 | n/a |
Bloody shoots Goon 3, causes -2 mod.
Character | Score | Wound Mod |
Munchkin | 23 | n/a |
Goon 1 | 19 | n/a |
Bloody | 18 | n/a |
Goon 2 | 16 | n/a |
Goon 3 | (12-2)10 | -2 |
Munchkin shoots Goon 2, causes -2 mod.
Character | Score | Wound Mod |
Goon 1 | 19 | n/a |
Bloody | 18 | n/a |
Goon 2 | (16-2)14 | -2 |
Munchkin | 13 | n/a |
Goon 3 | (12-2)10 | -2 |
Goon 1 shoots Bloody, causes -1 mod.
Character | Score | Wound Mod |
Bloody | (18-1)17 | -1 |
Goon 2 | (16-2)14 | -2 |
Munchkin | 13 | n/a |
Goon 3 | (12-2)10 | -2 |
Goon 1 | 9 | n/a |
Bloody kills Goon 3.
Character | Score | Wound Mod |
Goon 2 | (16-2)14 | -2 |
Munchkin | 13 | n/a |
Goon 1 | 9 | n/a |
Bloody | (8-1)7 | -1 |
Goon 3 | DEAD | DEAD |
Goon 2 Shoots twice at Munchkin, no damage done.
Character | Score | Wound Mod |
Munchkin | 13 | n/a |
Goon 1 | 9 | n/a |
Bloody | (8-1)7 | -1 |
Goon 2 | (6-2)4 | -2 |
Goon 3 | DEAD | DEAD |
Munchkin finishes off Goon 1 and 2 with full auto burst.
As you can see, if you follow the turns per character, Goon 3 never had a chance to act before he died, and Goon 1 was able to act, but Munchkin and Bloody got more hits in since theyr are way faster throughout the fight.
Since this style of combat is more dynamic, it also makes for more dramatic and strategic combat. It would make sense to hit multiple targets instead of focusing fire, to reduce their Initiatives enough to let your teammates act before them, thus bringing more firepower in before the bad guys (relative term) can act. For example, Bloody acts first, than a goon with a score of 12 and than Asp with 11. The goon has a gun pointed at Asp, and he can act before at this point. Not a good place to be in for Asp. If Bloody can shoot the goon down to at least 10 (which would be 6 full boxes of damage after all), Asp can act before the Goon, allowing her to escape, or fight back before she gets attacked.
Another bonus from this system is, that people like Asp (since I used her already for example), with only ONE initiatve pass, would now have a chance to act twice in combat, as well. I believe Asp's Initiatve is 9, and she gets one die (instead of pass). So her very minimun initaitive (assuming she won't get hit) is 9+1, or 10. Her max is 15. So of she rolls at least a 2, she can act twice - at 11 and at 1 (again, if she doesn't get hit).
I know, it's a lot of input, but I will explain it all in person with a combat example for all to play out, if you guys would like to give it a try.
There's also a few bugs to be fixed - like surprise, and some interrupt actions, like finishing move and so on. But I'll work on this and I'm sure most things can be done on a case-by-case kind of method.
Comments?